Hello
Started this topic as nowhere else seemed appropriate.
I popped in to WMT at around 11:30 today and was told by Nick that the river was not flowing, the sump was empty and he had been trying to refill it with the hosepipe since 08:00!
I found everything he said to be true, the water level in the bog was way down and the barrels were around half full. The river level was up to the top of the weirs in each section and no sign of soggy ground any more that you would expect from the rain we've had.
Having checked all the stuff that I could think of and making sure that the re-circulation pump was ok, I more or less emptied the contents of the barrels into the sump and watched what happened. The sump, bog and river filled ok and everything looked normal.
Can't explain what happened so I've noted it here in case it occurs again.
For the record the weather was wet, temperature around normal for time of year and no appreciable wind.
Hwyl
Penri
(up to August 19th 2019) River System status
Re: River System status
Hello
As Terry has reported elsewhere we experienced a power outage today, the net effect on the river system was as per the previous post in this topic, i.e. the sump was empty, the bog water level was 50 - 75 mm below normal and the river was static at the top of it's weirs. Additionally the circulation pump had been switched off as a precaution.
The problem was rectified by re-filling the system from barrel and hose; the barrels are now empty. I filled the sump to around 600mm, the yellow float being almost vertical, the circulation pump I left at 3. I'll write a note to Greg and Nick to check the sump tomorrow and fill to keep the float around vertical or just underwater so when it does rain there's some space left in the sump for the extra water.
Hamish if you find the sump brimming when you're in please pump some water into the barrels.
So here's what probably happened: the power outage stopped the circulation pump, the water overflowed the sump and was lost down the soak-away, the power came back on, restarting the circulation pump, but as there was insufficient water to make up for what had been lost from the bog the sump emptied.
Hwyl
Penri
As Terry has reported elsewhere we experienced a power outage today, the net effect on the river system was as per the previous post in this topic, i.e. the sump was empty, the bog water level was 50 - 75 mm below normal and the river was static at the top of it's weirs. Additionally the circulation pump had been switched off as a precaution.
The problem was rectified by re-filling the system from barrel and hose; the barrels are now empty. I filled the sump to around 600mm, the yellow float being almost vertical, the circulation pump I left at 3. I'll write a note to Greg and Nick to check the sump tomorrow and fill to keep the float around vertical or just underwater so when it does rain there's some space left in the sump for the extra water.
Hamish if you find the sump brimming when you're in please pump some water into the barrels.
So here's what probably happened: the power outage stopped the circulation pump, the water overflowed the sump and was lost down the soak-away, the power came back on, restarting the circulation pump, but as there was insufficient water to make up for what had been lost from the bog the sump emptied.
Hwyl
Penri
Re: River System status
Hello all
Just been down to WMT to take a look at the issue Greg mentioned in his e-mail this morning. status on arrival:
Water
Sump full
River system full up to top of weirs in all sections
Bog garden empty, I dug down around 150-200 mm (with my hands) before finding lying water although highter level gravel was damp. Nick had been watering the bog garden over the weekend and Greg had also done so this morning
Electricity
Circulation pump Off at socket in green box
Supply to Pi, etc. Off at socket in green box
What I did:
Switch on the circulation pump and saw water level begin to fall in sump.
Checked that water was getting to bog by unscrewing the inspection cap on one of the back-flush pipes, flow OK.
Switched off the pump and saw water trickling back into sump via the circulation pump.
Possible cause of problem; non-return value is stuck open / partly wedged open causing a syphon to be set up between the bog garden and sump, which has drained the bog, also caused the sump to overflow, resulting in lost water.
How it's been left; I isolated the sump and bog by turning off the bog feed valve, made sure the pump was off and asked Greg not to turn it back on. This evening Greg will put the hose into the bog garden and attempt to fill it, I probably go in to see if that is working, we may leave the hose flowing on reduced pressure all night as the bog will take a while to fill.
Tomorrow I will take the non-return valve apart to see if there are any obvious issues, plus take the opportunity to inspect and clean the pump and associated piping. If all is well I will restart the system and keep my fingers crossed.
Hwyl
Penri
Just been down to WMT to take a look at the issue Greg mentioned in his e-mail this morning. status on arrival:
Water
Sump full
River system full up to top of weirs in all sections
Bog garden empty, I dug down around 150-200 mm (with my hands) before finding lying water although highter level gravel was damp. Nick had been watering the bog garden over the weekend and Greg had also done so this morning
Electricity
Circulation pump Off at socket in green box
Supply to Pi, etc. Off at socket in green box
What I did:
Switch on the circulation pump and saw water level begin to fall in sump.
Checked that water was getting to bog by unscrewing the inspection cap on one of the back-flush pipes, flow OK.
Switched off the pump and saw water trickling back into sump via the circulation pump.
Possible cause of problem; non-return value is stuck open / partly wedged open causing a syphon to be set up between the bog garden and sump, which has drained the bog, also caused the sump to overflow, resulting in lost water.
How it's been left; I isolated the sump and bog by turning off the bog feed valve, made sure the pump was off and asked Greg not to turn it back on. This evening Greg will put the hose into the bog garden and attempt to fill it, I probably go in to see if that is working, we may leave the hose flowing on reduced pressure all night as the bog will take a while to fill.
Tomorrow I will take the non-return valve apart to see if there are any obvious issues, plus take the opportunity to inspect and clean the pump and associated piping. If all is well I will restart the system and keep my fingers crossed.
Hwyl
Penri
Re: River System status
Hello again
Just returned from WMT. Greg had started to fill the Bog Garden from the hosepipe, it was filling slowly, he's going to be there for another hour or so, so I asked him to turn off the hose when he left and turn it back on in the morning.
Sump level looked around and about where it was when I last checked this morning, some of the river section looking a little bit down , perhaps a couple of mm, but not enough to indicate major leaks.
Hwyl
Penri
Just returned from WMT. Greg had started to fill the Bog Garden from the hosepipe, it was filling slowly, he's going to be there for another hour or so, so I asked him to turn off the hose when he left and turn it back on in the morning.
Sump level looked around and about where it was when I last checked this morning, some of the river section looking a little bit down , perhaps a couple of mm, but not enough to indicate major leaks.
Hwyl
Penri
Re: River System status
Hello
Just to finish off the report for the weekend of the 26Aug17 a few words.
Circulation pump, non-return valve and associated pipework removed, inspected, cleaned and re-assembled this morning. There was some detritus in the non-return value that would support the siphoning theory so perhaps that was the cause of the bog draining.
River system appears to have returned to normal, I need to check on re-connected pipework to ensure there's no weeping from the joints and also to establish whether a anti-siphon hole was drilled and if so that it's still viable.
Hwyl
Penri
Just to finish off the report for the weekend of the 26Aug17 a few words.
Circulation pump, non-return valve and associated pipework removed, inspected, cleaned and re-assembled this morning. There was some detritus in the non-return value that would support the siphoning theory so perhaps that was the cause of the bog draining.
River system appears to have returned to normal, I need to check on re-connected pipework to ensure there's no weeping from the joints and also to establish whether a anti-siphon hole was drilled and if so that it's still viable.
Hwyl
Penri
Re: River System status
Morning all
Just returned from WMT, I went with a view of pumping more water into the barrels, having managed to more than half fill them in a similar exercise yesterday. It would have been a good chance to check out the higher level indicating LEDs and see if the float switch would actually work when in place.
Unfortunately the external circuit tripped late yesterday afternoon and wasn't re-set until this morning, resulting in an empty sump. Fortunately the bog garden hadn’t emptied itself, the non-return value did it's stuff, so the hose and what I’d managed to get into the barrels yesterday morning was sufficient to get things back on track.
I've had a moan about the state of external electrical circuit (problem may be our set-up in the model building of course, but I don't think so).
Terry, if you get a chance can you download the probe results so we can take a look at whether the 800 and 900 probe levels are working. If they are, and we can, I'd like very much to get butts pump working triggered at those higher levels.
To answer my question in the previous post in this topic, we had not drilled an anti-siphon home, I have now, which resulted in a pleasing, if unintended, little fountain. I've put some gaffer tape over the hole until such time as an air-bleed value can be fitted.
Hwyl
Penri
Just returned from WMT, I went with a view of pumping more water into the barrels, having managed to more than half fill them in a similar exercise yesterday. It would have been a good chance to check out the higher level indicating LEDs and see if the float switch would actually work when in place.
Unfortunately the external circuit tripped late yesterday afternoon and wasn't re-set until this morning, resulting in an empty sump. Fortunately the bog garden hadn’t emptied itself, the non-return value did it's stuff, so the hose and what I’d managed to get into the barrels yesterday morning was sufficient to get things back on track.
I've had a moan about the state of external electrical circuit (problem may be our set-up in the model building of course, but I don't think so).
Terry, if you get a chance can you download the probe results so we can take a look at whether the 800 and 900 probe levels are working. If they are, and we can, I'd like very much to get butts pump working triggered at those higher levels.
To answer my question in the previous post in this topic, we had not drilled an anti-siphon home, I have now, which resulted in a pleasing, if unintended, little fountain. I've put some gaffer tape over the hole until such time as an air-bleed value can be fitted.
Hwyl
Penri
Re: River System status
Argh 
Yeah, we need to look into the electrical problem, it seems to be happening more frequently. If I recall correctly, only the ones between 300 and 700 were working reliably, but it might be okay now
Hamish
Yeah, we need to look into the electrical problem, it seems to be happening more frequently. If I recall correctly, only the ones between 300 and 700 were working reliably, but it might be okay now
Hamish
Hamish
Re: River System status
I think that our bells PSU failing a few weeks ago caused the MCB to trip, but I believe that it shouldn't have done. There should be something else to detect the overcurrent before the MCB in the Cafe goes.Penri wrote:I've had a moan about the state of external electrical circuit (problem may be our set-up in the model building of course, but I don't think so).
I'll probably not be able to do that until tomorrow morning, when I intend to join you guys for a conflab anyway. I'm a bit busy today.Penri wrote:Terry, if you get a chance can you download the probe results so we can take a look at whether the 800 and 900 probe levels are working. If they are, and we can, I'd like very much to get butts pump working triggered at those higher levels.
I'm a bit concerned about the power going down so regularly because sumppi and buttspi are not protected against uncontrolled shutdowns, so there may be nothing readable
. The bells and webserver pis are, but it was a bit complicated to sort it for the river system, which needs to write date to the SD Card, so I left the OS as it is out of the box.Fingers crossed.
Terry
Re: River System status
We could change it so that it doesn't write to the SD card, but then that means no logging, which means we really have no idea what happens if something goes wrong! I'll think about it and see if I can come up with something.
Hamish
Re: River System status
One idea is to have it write the results to a USB stick, but that requires a USB Hub (these have now arrived) and some fairly careful configuring of the OS (read-only SD Card, etc). Also, any logging by the software would also have to be re-directed. As I said a bit complicated.
Terry